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SvtFox · Site Admin Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Posts: 9

Hey everyone, please bookmark this page.

Below I'll be listing information concerning our guild, efficient skill builds and the reasons why, thugging tips, and other useful info concerning gameplay.

Guild Improvements Order

This is Metem's rationale for which improvements should be priority.

1. Back Store Carpets
2. Flooring and Doors
3. Racks
4. Draperies and Desks
5. Front store carpets
6. Everything else

The carpets boost co-op points by a lot. The second tier carpet increases co-op gain by 14 points. It takes 15 days for your shop to make an extra 10k co-op points to recoup what was put into making the carpet. This is a good investment and everyone benefits.

The carpets boost co-op gain by a percentage, not a flat value. Roughly 5%/25%/30%. The gain from the luxurious carpet is not much until you have high-level workers (~70 co-op).

Flooring and doors, obviously because of the customer boost. More customers = more sales = more levels = higher level craftsmen = faster improvements.

The rest is for similar reasoning.

Improvement etiquette

If we can, let's try to keep the number of carpenter improvements that are out to a minimum (2 or 3 AT MOST) to reduce clutter and knock out some improvements more quickly. If possible, try to put out flooring, doors, and carpets above other intensive carpenter improvements.

Communications

In an effort to encourage communication in our guild, I think it would be a good idea if we're all on each other's friends list. This achieves two things:

1. Allows us to find each other in chat rooms very easily.
2. Allows us to compare each other's stats on the "high scores" tab, kind of a fun tool to use IMO.

Chat room

I think it'd be more fun, in a sense, to have our own chat room so we can discuss strategy, the game, real life, etc.

You'll hear more about this soon.

Now the good stuff.

Highly recommended skill points build

After restatting probably 6 times now, I've settled on this build, which I find to be most efficient for me (this assumes decent improvements, good workers):

Primary stats:

Adventure - 160+. This is one of the most important stats you can build. I can't emphasize this enough. Initially it seems like it's not worth putting points into past 50, BUT, it has been verified by multiple people in our guild that you will get a crazy amount of rare materials this way. I'm at 140, at the moment, and I get one rare mat delivery once every two days on average. In addition, questers succeed most of the time with or without a desired weapon (I've given bows to priests all the time and gotten something back.) In addition, it does not get in the way of your regular customer base. (Note, I've heard from Mag that giving higher value items in general increases the chance of rare mats.)

Silver Tongue - 50+. You need only raise this skill enough to achieve a maximum _suggest_ rate (50 will achieve this). Past 50, you can raise to 100+ to make your haggle unstoppable. In my opinion, however, I find mercantile to be a good emphasis. My rationale is below, and tmaster will go into further detail on why you only need 50 in ST.

Mercantile - When you are happy with your other stats, put the rest here - not only will it raise your initial sales price, but it will raise your haggling ability as well, another detail tmaster will put his data out on.

A common question is why not just put more in silver tongue? I will pose two different cases.

Case 1: 150 ST, 50 merc. In this build, Whatever people bring you, you can always haggle 100%. And that haggle will shoot to the ceiling. If you want to suggest something, however, your suggest rate is no better than what it was at 50 ST. In addition, the value of the item you suggest is dictated by your lowly 50 merc.

Case 2: 50 ST, 150 merc. In this build, people bring items in at a pretty high value, and you won't have as much need to haggle, but if you do when the offer is low, you will succeed. Most importantly, however, the value of your suggested items will be much higher since they are dictated by your 150 merc.

So really, what you should get out of these examples is that in both cases, you will get relatively the same price when a customer asks for the high value item that you own. Only in case 2, however, will your suggested items have a high value, making mercantile a better skill to put points into, in my opinion.

Secondary stats:

Leadership - Put some in here if you have Ronin Armor, Fiery Dragon, Celestial Pipes, and any other lengthy items that you'd like to make much quicker.

Ruthless/Protector - If you like stealing, pump these to a maximum of maybe 20 or 25, however much you want at your discretion.

Fame - 0. This doesn't seem to increase customer number once you get full improvements, so the points aren't worth it, IMO. Additionally, it's been proven that going 400 fame does NOTHING to increase customers, used item sales, etc. For visual proof look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Woe7fxpHI&feature=related

In terms of leveling, making more sales, etc., I can't promote this build order enough, with adventure being at the forefront of it. (and please, if you can, keep this info within the guild, just to give us an extra edge as we pursue the #1 guild spot.)

Sales tactics

Not only is your skill build important, but the way in which you make sales.

Your suggestions should run in this way
1. Always suggest something similar to what they are requesting.
2. If you don't have that, suggest something specific to their class. (Musketeers and engineers love guns. Singing axes love musical instruments.)
You can find the class list and their preference on this page:
http://swordsandpotions.wikia.com/wiki/Item_Acceptance_by_Class

Only suggest items you can easily produce. Otherwise, wait for these items to be requested so you can haggle the price up (and also not lose a lot of exp. by trying to suggest something like a gungnir.)

Also, don't try to keep one of every item. Instead keep a very short list of items you make. And make sure that item is the best that that worker can make. (Example: Don't make a ton of supple dust, instead make a ton of mana vials, that way when buyers request a potion, they request the mana vial, not the suple dust.) When buyers do request something you own, they always request the cheapest item in that item class.

There's more specifics to say in this section but this is my main approach to sales.

Token Recipes Worth Buying

I understand if you don't want to feed money to Kongregate/Edgebee, I used to hold that position. At some point I realized, though, that it didn't seem like a heavy price to pay to do better in a game I've spent countless hours on, you might come to the same conclusion. I've definitely found worse deals than 500 tokens for $5.

If you have tokens to spend, I recommend these 3 recipes primarily: Celestial Pipes, Ronin Armor, Fiery Dragon. They are the highest valued items you can make without rare materials, which will effectively accelerate your sales and level up process.

Alternative recipes that are worth consideration are the following:

Dragon sabatons - a popular item that sales for 37k and only costs 2 of each rare mat, making it very balanced and efficient to make.
Demon plate - Also popular, similar in value to the lionheart, and minimizes the use of your mythril rare mat (only 4 as opposed to the 8 with the lionheart.)
Seven seas shield - Does not need rare materials, sales for 4.4k, and has a very high suggest rate when customers are asking for shields.

There are other recipes that are worthy of purchase also but I haven't researched the subject too heavily. I'll be expanding on this down the line.

Thugging tips and tactics

Thugging is a fun part of the game, a way to punish your enemies and increase your wealth. Here's how you can increase your chances of success.

1. Choose the right thug. He needs to have high burglary (#1) and high spying (#2). Anything past that is secondary. My thug, for example, is 83 in burglary and 73 in spying.

2. To inflict the most damage to your opponent and receive the most reward, spy your enemy first, and then _immediately_ thieve him. (I have received gungnirs, deathbringers, and as much as 14 million in my single raids.)

3. Put points into ruthless to increase your burglary chances. Put points into protector if you're worried about being targeted a lot.

IMO vandalism and intimidate are not worthy uses of the thug's time, so I generally stick to thieving.

Future plans

We will keep being awesome and every day we are improving our earning score. With more recruits and everyone improving their sales ability we'll definitely grab #2 shortly, and soon after, the #1!

Recruiting

If you see someone who is high level and looking for a guild, feel free to recruit them and refer them to me.

tmaster148 · Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Posts: 6

So my theory is that there is a bracket of the lowest percent of an item you can get to a highest percent of an item you can get. Merc only moves the bracket upwards so as it gets higher your lowest percent may be like 0% market but you will rarely see them because they are the lowest point.

However, Haggling is based on the current amount that the item is offered compared to how high the item can get. So as you highest point increases faster than your lowest point, you actually gain the ability to haggle more often.

I am running some statistics on this and here is what i got so far:
[Disclaimer, Classes may effect the haggle rate depending on item]

*Formula: (Max Price - Current Price)/ Market Price of Item = R
R is the relative "percent" that helps determine your chances, it changes based on the item, but the higher the "percent" the better haggle you can do.

I noticed that the Rs are equal or close to an item that had the same initial percent, so the Rs are grouped from lowest to highest to make searches easier

My max price seems to be double the market.
Using 216 Merc and 50ST

Apocalypscion (10 entries):
Value =62.9K
1)
R = 35
Initial Price: ~64% of market, 103.7K
Haggle Chance: 26%
Final Price: ~79% of market, 112.3K

2)
R = 39
Initial Price: ~61% of market, 101.1K
Haggle Chance: 36%
Final Price: Failed

3)
R = 42
Initial Price: ~58% of market, 99.6K
Haggle Chance: 42%
Final Price: ~76% of market, 110.8K

4)
R = 47
Initial Price: ~53% of market, 96.2K
Haggle Chance: 58%
Final Price: Failed

5)
R = 48
Initial Price: ~52% of market, 95.3K
Haggle Chance: 61%
Final Price: Failed

6)
R = 49
Initial Price: ~51% of market, 94.9K
Haggle Chance: 63%
Final Price: Failed

7)
R = 52
Initial Price: ~48% of market, 92.9K
Haggle Chance: 87%
Final Price: ~72% of market, 107.9K

8)
R = 66
Initial Price: ~33% of market, 83.7K
Haggle Chance: 94%
Final Price: ~57% of market, 99.9K

9)
R = 70
Initial Price: ~30% of market, 81.7K
Haggle Chance: 96%
Final Price: ~45% of market, 91.5K

10)
R = 74
Initial Price: ~26% of market, 79.3K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: ~50% of market, 94.1K

Dragon Leather(10 Entries):
Value = 31.4K
1)
R = 28
Initial Price: 72% of market, 53.9K
Haggle Chance: 54%
Final Price: 79% of market, 59.4K

2)
R = 35
Initial Price: 65% of market, 51.7K
Haggle Chance: 72%
Final Price: 82% of market, 57K

3)
R = 41
Initial Price: 59% of market, 49.8K
Haggle Chance: 43%[disclaimer]
Final Price: failed

4)
R = 51
Initial Price: ~46% of market, 46K
Haggle Chance: 74%
Final Price: Failed

5)
R = 64
Initial Price: ~36% of market, 42.8K
Haggle Chance: 91%
Final Price: Failed

6)
R = 71
Initial Price: 26% of market, 39.5K
Haggle Chance: 98%
Final Price: 51% of market, 47.5K

7)
R = 75
Initial Price: ~32% of market, 41.7K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: ~44% of market, 48.1K

8)
R = 82
Initial Price: ~18% of market, 37.2K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: ~59% of market, 50K

9)
R = 94
Initial Price: 6% of market, 33.2K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: 44% of market, 45.3K

10)
R = 103
Initial Price: ~-4% of market, 30.2K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: ~30% of market, 40.6K

Sky Mantle (10 Entries)
Value = 33.2K
1)
R = 20
Initial Price: ~80% of market, 59.9K
Haggle Chance: 13%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 30
Initial Price: 70% of market, 56.4K
Haggle Chance: 35%
Final Price: 88% of market, 62.3K

3)
R = 48
Initial Price: ~52% of market, 50.6K
Haggle Chance: 79%
Final Price: 73% of market, 57.5K

4)
R = 53
Initial Price: ~47% of market, 48.9K
Haggle Chance: 88%
Final Price: Failed

5)
R = 55
Initial Price: 45% of market, 46K
Haggle Chance: 91%
Final Price: 74% of market, 57.8K

6)
R = 59
Initial Price: 40% of market, 48.5K
Haggle Chance: 95%
Final Price: 61% of market, 53.4K

7)
R = 65
Initial Price: 35% of market, 45K
Haggle Chance: 98%
Final Price: 67% of market, 55.6K

8)
R = 67
Initial Price: 33% of market, 44.1K
Haggle Chance: 99%
Final Price: 65% of market, 54.6K

9)
R = 71
Initial Price: 29% of market, 42.8K
Haggle Chance: 99%
Final Price: 72% of market, 57.3K

10)
R = 75
Initial Price: 25% of market, 41.6K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: 55% of market, 51.4K

DeathBringer (6 entries)
Value = 47.5K
1)
R = 24
Initial Price: 76% of market, 83.7K
Haggle Chance: 42%
Final Price: 92% of market, 91.1K

2)
R = 31
Initial Price: 69% of market, 80.3K
Haggle Chance: 61%
Final Price: Failed

3)
R = 34
Initial Price: 66% of market, 79K
Haggle Chance: 68%
Final Price: Failed

4)
R = 57
Initial Price: 43% of market, 68.1K
Haggle Chance: 80%
Final Price: 63% of market, 77.3K

5)
R = 62
Initial Price: 38% of market, 65.5K
Haggle Chance: 89%
Final Price: 56% of market, 74.2K

6)
R = 90
Initial Price: 9% of market, 52.1K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: 61% of market, 76.3K

Rebirth Potion (10 entries)
Value = 34.4K
1)
R = 34
Initial Price: 65% of market, 57K
Haggle Chance: 46%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 40
Initial Price: 60% of market, 55.2K
Haggle Chance: 51%
Final Price: Failed

3)
R = 47
Initial Price: 53% of market, 52.8K
Haggle Chance: 55%
Final Price: Failed

4)
R = 50
Initial Price: 50% of market, 51.5K
Haggle Chance: 84%
Final Price: 69% of market, 58.1K

5)
R = 51
Initial Price: 49% of market, 51.2K
Haggle Chance: 95%
Final Price: 68% of market, 57.8K

6)
R = 59
Initial Price: 41% of market, 48.5K
Haggle Chance: 95%
Final Price: 60% of market, 55K

7)
R = 61
Initial Price: 38% of market, 47.7K
Haggle Chance: 96%
Final Price: 76% of market, 60.5K

8)
R = 67
Initial Price: 33% of market, 45.6K
Haggle Chance: 94%[disclaimer]
Final Price: 51% of market, 52.1K

9)
R = 76
Initial Price: 24% of market, 42.7K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: 48% of market, 51K

10)
R = 90
Initial Price: 10% of market, 37.8K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: 53% of market, 52.6K

Moon Stone Staff (7 Entries)
Value = 30.4K
1)
R = 24
Initial Price: 76% of market, 53.6K
Haggle Chance: 20%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 43
Initial Price: 57% of market, 47.8K
Haggle Chance: 69%
Final Price: Failed

3)
R = 43
Initial Price: 57% of market, 47.8K
Haggle Chance: 70%
Final Price: 77% of market, 53.8K

4)
R = 45
Initial Price: 55% of market, 47.2K
Haggle Chance: 73%
Final Price: 74% of market, 52.8K

5)
R = 47
Initial Price: 52% of market, 46.4K
Haggle Chance: 79%
Final Price: 76% of market, 53.4K

6)
R = 62
Initial Price: 38% of market, 42.1K
Haggle Chance: 96%
Final Price: 57% of market, 47.8K

7)
R = 62
Initial Price: 38% of market, 41.9K
Haggle Chance: 97%
Final Price: 56% of market, 47.4K

Lionheart (4 Entries)
Value = 59.3K
1)
R = 27
Initial Price: 73% of market, 102.5K
Haggle Chance: 51%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 35
Initial Price: 65% of market, 97.7K
Haggle Chance: 72%
Final Price: 83% of market, 108.7K

3)
R = 37
Initial Price: 63% of market, 96.6K
Haggle Chance: 76%
Final Price: Failed

4)
R = 42
Initial Price: 57% of market, 93.3K
Haggle Chance: 86%
Final Price: 99% of market, 118.4K

Attribute Seed (2 entries)
Value = 35.1K
1)
R = 48
Initial Price: 52% of market, 53.2K
Haggle Chance: 61%
Final Price: 67% of market, 58.6K

2)
R = 79
Initial Price: 20% of market, 42.4K
Haggle Chance: 99%
Final Price: 58% of market, 55.5K

Blue Bird Shield (7 entries)
Value = 33.6K
1)
R = 20
Initial Price: 80% of market, 60.6K
Haggle Chance: 31%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 26
Initial Price: 74% of market, 58.6K
Haggle Chance: 47%
Final Price: 99% of market, 66.9K

3)
R = 26
Initial Price: 74% of market, 58.4K
Haggle Chance: 48%
Final Price: Failed

4)
R = 47
Initial Price: 53% of market, 51.5K
Haggle Chance: 91%
Final Price: 78% of market, 59.8K

5)
R = 56
Initial Price: 44% of market, 48.4K
Haggle Chance: 98%
Final Price: 70% of market, 57.2K

6)
R = 56%
Initial Price: 44% of market, 48.3K
Haggle Chance: 98%
Final Price: 75% of market, 58.8K

7)
R = 65
Initial Price: 35% of market, 45.3K
Haggle Chance: 100%
Final Price: 61% of market, 54K

Demon Plate(7 Entries)
Value = 55K

1)
R = 12
Initial Price: 88% of market, 103.6K
Haggle Chance: 14%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 17
Initial Price: 83% of market, 100.7K
Haggle Chance: 24%
Final Price: Failed

3)
R = 21
Initial Price: 79% of market, 98.3K
Haggle Chance: 35%
Final Price: Failed

4)
R = 40
Initial Price: 60% of market, 88.2K
Haggle Chance: 81%
Final Price: Failed

5)
R = 43
Initial Price: 57% of market, 86.1K
Haggle Chance: 87%
Final Price: Failed

6)
R = 50
Initial Price: 50% of market, 82.4K
Haggle Chance: 94%
Final Price: Failed

7)
R = 50
Initial Price: 50% of market, 82.7K
Haggle Chance: 94%
Final Price: 71% of market, 93.8K

Gungnir(4 entries)
Value = 95.1K

1)
R = 22
Initial Price: 78% of market, 169.4K
Haggle Chance: 36%
Final Price: Failed

2)
R = 29
Initial Price: 70% of market, 162.5K
Haggle Chance: 56%
Final Price: Failed

3)
R = 45
Initial Price: 55% of market, 147.6K
Haggle Chance: 89%
Final Price: failed

4)
R = 56
Initial Price: 44% of market, 136.6K
Haggle Chance: 98%
Final Price: 63% of market, 154.8K

As you see, just because an item had the same or close percent above market did not mean it had the same or close chance to be haggled.

An Example:
Apocalypscion and Sky Mantle had a 52% of market price offer
However, their haggle percentages were: 61%, 79% respectively.
If haggling was on market, they would of been either 61% or 79%.

Another Example:
DeathBringer and Rebirth potion have both an initial offer of 38%.
However their haggle percentages were: 89% and 96% respectively.

Another Example:
Sky Mantle and Rebirth Potion both have an initial offer of 80% of market price. However their haggle percentages were: 13% and 31% respectively.

KEY EXAMPLE
Demon Plate and Rebirth Potion offered at 50% of market.
Demon being worth more and having a higher differences from highest price i could get, had 94% chance haggle.
Rebirth being less only had an 84% haggle.

With I do believe that Merc unoffically helps haggles since the higgest price will keep increasing at a faster rate than the lowest price does.

maxxian · Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 3

I conducted an experiment just now and would like to share with you the results:

Experient: To see how the Silver Tongue skill and Mercentile Skill work together.

Way I did it: I spent 20ish game days just making stuff, cashed in my resources reward (40 of each of the top tier material). And then redid my points in a way where I had 200 Silver Tongue (rest I put towards the customer skill to keep things equal). I spent a few game days selling and haggling and then decided to throw my "Expert Merchant" reward buff to see how that effected Silver Tongue. BTW Exper Merchant greatly increased your merchant skill.

Results:

Before Merchant Buff: (Oh and btw ALL my haggle rolls were 100%)

Apacalypscion: Sold for 110k and 80k (Both initial offers were above market)

Deathbringer: 43.3k offer (-4.3k below market) sold for 72.8k

Rebirth Potions: Sales ranging 42.7k - 88.3k. Some offers started below market value and others were above.

Gungnir: 100.8 offer (+5.7k) sold for 169.2k

That concluded the without merchant buff...the following is with:

Rebirth Potions: sold for 63.3k and 66.3k (both around 27k above market)

Gungnir: Offered 112.7k (17.6k above market)..sold for....175.2k

Moonstone Staffs: Sold 3 between 47.9k (17.5k above market) to 53.7k (23.4k above market)

Now the fun ones:

Lionheart (took the bastards forever to buy em)
Sold 2.....ready for this???? 110.3k and 116.5k...yes almost double market value.

Other items of note would be:

Dragon Leather: Sold for 59.2k

Skymantle: Sold for 58.3k

Mega Elixir: Sold for 24.1k (9.5k above market)

Ok so all in all the biggest difference I found was that with the merchant buff the customers would come in with larger initial offers making it way more likely to haggle them to 50%+ market value. Also remember I had 2 sales that were just short of double market value. Once the merchant skill fell off I noticed that initial offerings dropped way below market value. With the merchant buff it was rare that someone came in below market where without the buff I was lucky if someone came up at or just above....though the rare 20% over market does happen.

Also I found that in general if you suggest an item unrelated to the one being asked by the customer your haggle % is going to be at best 33-36% where if you offer something similar to the class of the customer (like offering a Gungir when asking for plate mail) you will see around 50-55% haggling. Now if you offer a good substitute (like a lower grade of gun when asking for one) I capped out around 82%.

Other side notes would be that this game REALLY likes to ask for attribute seeds and lots of other rare material items...especially Apacalypscion. Which is to be expected sine this is a microtransaction game. Also when I turned on the merchant buff, I found my customer base decreased a bit and it went back up when the merchant buff fell off...despite me adding points into the famous skill (even as I leveled)

Anyways that was my experiment and I conclude that if you want to really pour points into silver tongue, you will probably want about 1/3 those points in merchant that way you have better customers coming in.

Oh and I gained like 15 levels in 9 days doing this.

Cunari · Joined: 30 Aug 2011 Posts: 3

That video on famous is not scientific at all. He only tests for like two minutes.

And even if ST caps on suggest at 50 there eventually comes a point where you want to put more points in ST instead of mercantile.

Each point in mercantile increases the cost of failure for haggling failure. As mercantile increases, the benefit of increasing haggling success increases. Therefore eventually you should put points in st above 50.

The exact rate of this is unknown but at some point you'll want more points than 50 in ST.

random004 · Joined: 30 Aug 2011 Posts: 2

Since the topic of thug application came up.
I been thinking about this type of a strategy.

Arguably some of the most valuable targets for leveling are people between the lvl 50-100 who have around 50 in adventurer due to the number of rare items that comes in to their shop.

Their thugs are also fairly week at that points. Targeting them might be worth trying as it may yield considerable results.

Since the game does not have a list of people below 200 the way to deal with that issue is to recruit a lvl 50 person who will consistently post the names of all nearby people as that person lvls giving the rest of the guild targets to play with.

Although I think we ought to try and take the first place in guild ranking b4 considering this strat.

Magnitudem · Joined: 29 Aug 2011 Posts: 3

I just did a test for the lolz with the invention skill. put 300 in it, and my meteor shower scroll research went from 90 hours to 8 hours. Very Happy

SvtFox · Site Admin Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Posts: 9

tmaster148 · Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Posts: 6

My experiment was only to show that there is a correlation between being able to haggle and having higher prices.

For the most part i would max out adv. 50 first, then do ST to 50, get a good amount of merc then start raising adv for rare mats or add more into ST for extra haggle ability.

Cunari · Joined: 30 Aug 2011 Posts: 3

Mercantile only helps you haggle until 300 which is when you hit the 250% price cap. And haggling still helps you with suggesting above 50 it's just slower.

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